Comments on: If not Java EE, then…? http://afongen.com/blog/2006/10/12/if-not-java-ee-then/ Sam Buchanan's weblog Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:36:51 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: afongen » Web frameworks should do more http://afongen.com/blog/2006/10/12/if-not-java-ee-then/comment-page-1/#comment-13764 afongen » Web frameworks should do more Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:45:48 +0000 http://afongen.com/blog/2006/10/12/if-not-java-ee-then/#comment-13764 [...] deployment. I’ve written before how as much as I like Rails, Capistrano, and Mongrel, and as confident as I am that a Rails apps [...] [...] deployment. I’ve written before how as much as I like Rails, Capistrano, and Mongrel, and as confident as I am that a Rails apps [...]

]]> By: garence http://afongen.com/blog/2006/10/12/if-not-java-ee-then/comment-page-1/#comment-1038 garence Fri, 27 Oct 2006 22:52:08 +0000 http://afongen.com/blog/2006/10/12/if-not-java-ee-then/#comment-1038 I confess, my bias and shallow knowledgebase limits me too much. But a Java shop looking for a rapid application development solution? Flex those ColdFusion muscles. I confess, my bias and shallow knowledgebase limits me too much. But a Java shop looking for a rapid application development solution?

Flex those ColdFusion muscles.

]]> By: Sam http://afongen.com/blog/2006/10/12/if-not-java-ee-then/comment-page-1/#comment-1025 Sam Thu, 26 Oct 2006 21:51:47 +0000 http://afongen.com/blog/2006/10/12/if-not-java-ee-then/#comment-1025 There isn't a Ruby spec, which has been a problem for the JRuby developers, as well as other Ruby implementations. They've just had to feel their way around, unearthing all of C Ruby's quirks. For just that reason, they started a <a href="http://www.headius.com/rubyspec/" rel="nofollow">RubySpec wiki</a>, which is picking up steam and I believe is looked upon favorably by the core Ruby devs. I think that Matz has contributed. As to the interop and fragmentation question, see Obie's discussion today on InfoQ: <a href="http://www.infoq.com/news/how-many-rubies-future" rel="nofollow">How Many Rubies Does the Future Hold?</a>. It is a concern, but JRuby is committed to full compatibility. You should go to a ruby.mn meeting sometime, Scott. Charles Nutter is almost always there and frequently gives JRuby updates -- but let me know if you do, since I haven't been myself in months and could meet you there. There isn’t a Ruby spec, which has been a problem for the JRuby developers, as well as other Ruby implementations. They’ve just had to feel their way around, unearthing all of C Ruby’s quirks. For just that reason, they started a RubySpec wiki, which is picking up steam and I believe is looked upon favorably by the core Ruby devs. I think that Matz has contributed.

As to the interop and fragmentation question, see Obie’s discussion today on InfoQ: How Many Rubies Does the Future Hold?. It is a concern, but JRuby is committed to full compatibility.

You should go to a ruby.mn meeting sometime, Scott. Charles Nutter is almost always there and frequently gives JRuby updates — but let me know if you do, since I haven’t been myself in months and could meet you there.

]]> By: Scott Mark http://afongen.com/blog/2006/10/12/if-not-java-ee-then/comment-page-1/#comment-1023 Scott Mark Thu, 26 Oct 2006 20:03:51 +0000 http://afongen.com/blog/2006/10/12/if-not-java-ee-then/#comment-1023 I was thinking JRuby too, but I'm kind of wondering how those guys will fit into the Ruby community. Is there a published spec from Ruby, or are they going to always be chasing the release to keep up with extensions? Will they choose to implement extensions of their own, and interop won't be real? Funny timing, as I was thinking about asking this at the CSS Q&A tonight. I was thinking JRuby too, but I’m kind of wondering how those guys will fit into the Ruby community. Is there a published spec from Ruby, or are they going to always be chasing the release to keep up with extensions? Will they choose to implement extensions of their own, and interop won’t be real? Funny timing, as I was thinking about asking this at the CSS Q&A tonight.

]]> By: James Governor http://afongen.com/blog/2006/10/12/if-not-java-ee-then/comment-page-1/#comment-1021 James Governor Thu, 26 Oct 2006 19:56:25 +0000 http://afongen.com/blog/2006/10/12/if-not-java-ee-then/#comment-1021 hey Sam. its funny as i was reading the post i was thinking jruby, jruby, and then you called it out... i am here at Adobe MAX - blogs to come. and i have to say Flex is looking very good. saw a great presentation from t-mobile yesterday, where they used flex 1 to build a scheduling app for employee training which hit an SAP HR back end. very rapid dev. ruby's syntax is very very nice though isn't it. even a fake geek like me can see that. hey Sam. its funny as i was reading the post i was thinking jruby, jruby, and then you called it out…

i am here at Adobe MAX – blogs to come. and i have to say Flex is looking very good. saw a great presentation from t-mobile yesterday, where they used flex 1 to build a scheduling app for employee training which hit an SAP HR back end. very rapid dev.

ruby’s syntax is very very nice though isn’t it. even a fake geek like me can see that.

]]> By: Sam http://afongen.com/blog/2006/10/12/if-not-java-ee-then/comment-page-1/#comment-1018 Sam Thu, 26 Oct 2006 05:50:29 +0000 http://afongen.com/blog/2006/10/12/if-not-java-ee-then/#comment-1018 Hey Ryan, glad you found your way here. I think that PHP and the rest of the LAMP stack will serve you well. It's becoming more popular with others in the MnSCU system, which I'm glad to see. What I did not mention is that I have considered CF from a Java EE integration standpoint. As CF is now a Java application running inside a J2EE environment, it has the potential for serving as a nice web interface sitting on top of other Java components. Before its acquisition by Adobe, Macromedia was seriously courting the Java developer (Flex, anyone?) and I don't see that slowing down. Still, single-vendor, etc. I also did not mention that I see a future for PHP integration with Java, using a <a href="http://www.zend.com/products/zend_platform/in_depth/php_java_integration" rel="nofollow">bridge such as you can find from Zend</a>. Not that this matters to you in the least, since you're probably not doing a lot of work with Java apps. I know we could make PHP work. I've been making it work for years now. All my hand-wringing is really about whether it would be that much of an improvement over Java for our web app development, enough to make it worth putting our developers through. I would have thought so until I started to work with Rails and Django -- really, with Ruby and Python, which as languages offer much more dramatic improvements than PHP and which I find so much more pleasant to work with. Still, when I spend weeks working on something that I know I very well I could do in days with PHP, it does seem clear. I'm curious. Have you looked at <a href="http://www.rubyonrails.org/" rel="nofollow">Rails</a>, <a href="http://www.djangoproject.com/" rel="nofollow">Django</a>, or something of that ilk? Are you using a framework in PHP? Hey Ryan, glad you found your way here. I think that PHP and the rest of the LAMP stack will serve you well. It’s becoming more popular with others in the MnSCU system, which I’m glad to see.

What I did not mention is that I have considered CF from a Java EE integration standpoint. As CF is now a Java application running inside a J2EE environment, it has the potential for serving as a nice web interface sitting on top of other Java components. Before its acquisition by Adobe, Macromedia was seriously courting the Java developer (Flex, anyone?) and I don’t see that slowing down. Still, single-vendor, etc.

I also did not mention that I see a future for PHP integration with Java, using a bridge such as you can find from Zend. Not that this matters to you in the least, since you’re probably not doing a lot of work with Java apps.

I know we could make PHP work. I’ve been making it work for years now. All my hand-wringing is really about whether it would be that much of an improvement over Java for our web app development, enough to make it worth putting our developers through. I would have thought so until I started to work with Rails and Django — really, with Ruby and Python, which as languages offer much more dramatic improvements than PHP and which I find so much more pleasant to work with. Still, when I spend weeks working on something that I know I very well I could do in days with PHP, it does seem clear.

I’m curious. Have you looked at Rails, Django, or something of that ilk? Are you using a framework in PHP?

]]> By: Ryan K. http://afongen.com/blog/2006/10/12/if-not-java-ee-then/comment-page-1/#comment-917 Ryan K. Tue, 17 Oct 2006 14:19:05 +0000 http://afongen.com/blog/2006/10/12/if-not-java-ee-then/#comment-917 Hey, forgot how I found your blog but I do enjoy some of the info found here. We of course are currently a CF shop (SMSU) and its a wonderful product however I am going to be moving my one of my development environments to php (LAMP) probably this year, for that same single vendor reason you mentioned. I don't like the idea that I am at the will of a single entity. That and PHP and CF are soooo easy to teach my student workers its just an easy way to go for medium scale dev. with limited to no staff. -Ryan K. Hey,
forgot how I found your blog but I do enjoy some of the info found here. We of course are currently a CF shop (SMSU) and its a wonderful product however I am going to be moving my one of my development environments to php (LAMP) probably this year, for that same single vendor reason you mentioned. I don’t like the idea that I am at the will of a single entity. That and PHP and CF are soooo easy to teach my student workers its just an easy way to go for medium scale dev. with limited to no staff.
-Ryan K.

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